Fair usage comment: Site is used to educate people about creation, and is an ongoing research to find truth. It is also a criticism of any untruth evidence that may be found.
Page updated: Sunday, October 12, 2008
Flood Q and A:
1) Where did the water come from?
When the canopy was around the planet, the barometric pressure was about twice what it is now. Higher barometric pressure makes the atmosphere hold a lot more water. An atmosphere that holds it's water will not release it and therefore rain clouds will not form. This is why it did not rain before the flood. This is also why the weather man is always speaking of highs and lows barometric pressure systems. This will affect the weather in any given area. This is how it can rain buckets of water in places like a desert. Because even the dry air of the desert is holding moisture. And when the barometric pressure drops, it will release it.
Problem that evolutionists will come up with...
That much condensing in our atmosphere would cause so much kinetic energy to be released that it would broil the earth.
When that much rain is being released from our atmosphere, along with the cloud cover. The sun would be totally blocked all the way around the earth. The bible says that the rain continued for 40 days. So we can conclude that the sun would be blocked for forty days. Total blockage of the sun's rays starts a cool down affect of the whole planet. So for the energy released from the condensing of water in our atmosphere to broil the earth, it most first match the blocked heating affect of the sun. Then it most exceed that amount by several times the suns heating affect to broil the planet in 40 days.
Currently the sun's heat energy is:
| Averaged over an entire year and the entire Earth, the Sun deposits 342 Watts of energy into every square meter of the Earth*. This is a very large amount of heat—1.7 x 1017 watts of power that the Sun sends to the Earth/atmosphere system. For comparison, a large electric power plant would produce 100 million watts of power, or 108 watts. It would take 1.7 billion such power plants to equal the energy coming to the Earth from the Sun—roughly one for every three people on the Earth! |
So the kinetic energy has to match this because the sun's heat is totally blocked, then exceed this by several times. Which by the way would be impossible. So basically the kinetic energy produced was what kept the planet warm during the flood. So no broiling of our planet here. Without the kinetic energy, the earth would have been quite cold when the rain stopped.
http://creationwiki.org/index.php/Flood ... tic_energy
Side note: When you ask a old earther-evolutionist where all the water came from that is on the earth. He will use what is called the snow ball theory. Which is where he will claim that several thousand snow ball size ice hit our atmosphere daily, and left enough water on the earth as we observe now. Sounds feasible until you start looking at all the variables.
| 1) All the other planets should have the same amount of water, unless these are intelligent snow balls that only decided to hit the planet deemed to have life on it.|
| 2) Our oceans would be constantly rising. We need not worry about global warming making the oceans rise. The snow balls should have drowned us a long time ago.|
| 3) And they need to also account for the water found beneath the earth's crust that equals 30 of our oceans as talked about below.|
2) Where did the water go for the flood?
There has been testing and research done on the upper mantle of the earth A mineral called wadsleyite, holds about 3% water by weight. And the estimated amount of wadsleyite that exists, the water contained in it works out to be about 30 of our oceans. 30 oceans worth of water is more than enough to flood the earth to the highest mountain.
Note: Site above is not a creation site. So it will try and promote old earth.
Problem #1: Evolutionists like to say: To bring up that much water you would have to bring up so much mantle with it that the earth would broil (notice the attempt to broil the earth again).
Solution: The problem with this as explained in the first post, is that "all" of the water for the flood did not come from the fountains of the deep. But they ended up there in the upper mantle.
Side note: Here is what happens when evolutionists actually find evidence to support the Bible.
On the JREF forum. Some evolutionists are discussing volcanoes and the mineral called wadsleyite. One evolutionist realizes that this find of huge amounts of water would solve the problem of the flood not having enough water to flood the whole earth to the highest mountain. So instead of even considering the possibility of this, and wanting to find out the truth about this. This is what is said.
| I wonder how many creationist sites are out there already, using this as evidence for a biblical flood? |
The other forum member replied:
| Funny how the fundamentalists pick and choose which scientific factoids they can exploit to support their cause, while rejecting all the rest of science as ungodly. I remember when the analysis of mitochondrial DNA led to the discovery that all humans descended from a single female. A minister on the radio said, "They didn't have to go to all that trouble. They could have just read the Bible!" |
See how much simpler life is if we simply turn off our brains? Come, join us!
Then another member makes a comment in hopes no creationist ever puts this evidence together:
| That is the old Eve hypothesis, the fundamentalists were having a field day just in view of the theory's name alone. I just pondered over it at the time why did the scientist call it the Eve hypothesis? |
I hope no scientist refers to those deep mantle waters as the Noah hypothesis.
So you see, it's not that there is no evidence for the flood or creation. As shown here, science-Darwinists are not really interested in any other ideas except there own. So they find support, and then show that they hope the creationists don't find it as well. Hey, we might prove the flood. That might be a problem for the evolutionists. So keep the evidence a secret.
Now do you know what more than likely happens to creation evidence if it is actually dug up by an evolutionists? Hey, I hope they don't see this. Might actually prove God. Let's hide it, destroy it, etc... There is no interest in finding out the real truth. Only proving what they want to believe. Which has to include hiding all other evidence, and making accepted evidence conform to the accepted theory. Which is not science.
Reference: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=50628 Now back to flood discussion.
Side note #1: The water came from three sources:
gen 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
| 1) The fountains of the deep (black smokers).|
| 2) Windows of heaven (Condensing rain from fallen barometric pressure).|
| 3) Rain from heaven (The fallen canopy itself|
1) The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped.
2) The rain from heaven was restrained.
You have three sources, and two actions that stopped the process.
Side note #2: Windows of heaven can also mean water poured from actual heaven to flood the earth. If you do a word search on the term "windows of heaven", you will find that things that come that way are directly from God. So number 2 may indicate that water was actually added from heaven to flood the earth.
| Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. |
The key phrase in figuring out where the water came from for the flood is: windows of heaven. Now most people, just like myself, just think of this as a storm with clouds that opened and allowed rain to fall. Not so. This was the very first time rain, or any water, had fallen from the sky. This is one of the reasons why Noah was made fun of for building the Ark. But why did the water have to come through the way of windows of heaven? After doing a word search on this phrase, I found that what comes through the windows of heaven, comes directly from God. And since there are no windows in our sky, this most be a reference to what separates the physical world from the spiritual.
| Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.|
Being that blessings come straight from God, the windows of heaven phrase can only mean that this is some type of portal in which things from God come through. But was windows of heaven phrase just a replacement word for the word storm? No. Storm is mentioned 19 times in the word of God. And the first time is:
| Job 21:18 They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.|
So from this we can conclude that the first water that fell on the earth did not fall as it comes from a storm, like how it works today. But is there a verse that shows how this could be done?
| Isaiah 28:2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand. |
This verse, in Isaiah, shows that God has the ability to cast water down by His hand. This maybe also why windows of heaven phrase is used. For God's hand had to come through the windows of heaven portal (an opening access between our world and heaven) for God's hand to cast down water for the flood. But for God to be able to do this, there would have to be a connection between God and water.
| Jer 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters. |
| Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.|
| Jer 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. |
So in these verses we see that water can actually flow from God. So what we have so far is: The windows of heaven opening, and water flowing from God, through this portal, that separates our world from heaven, to flood the earth. But science will say: What about physics? Would not that much water, falling in such a short period of time, generate enough heat to almost cook the earth? Of course it would. But, with the windows of heaven and God becoming personally involved in the flooding of the earth, what law of physics would apply to God? And since no known scientific law would apply to God, God is able to do what is needed. This is why God was personally involved in creation and the flood. And also why science cannot explain creation or the flood and can only try to disprove it
Problem #2: How can the water go into the mantle without boiling off?
Solution: The water for the flood was 7 miles above the earth's crust (sea level), and 6 miles to the deepest ocean. Pressure applied to water increases the boiling point. According to scuba diving books, every 33 feet you descend into water equals 1 atmosphere. One atmosphere = 14.7 psi. So you take how many feet are in a mile. Divide that by 33. And you get how many atmospheres are in one mile. Times that times 13 miles and you get the least amount of pressure for the least amount of water required to cover the earth for the flood. After you have the amount of atmospheres in 13 miles of water, you times that times 14.7 and you get the actual pressure at the bottom of the ocean during the flood.
From there you can figure a boiling point. But remember, water can only reach a certain boiling point and can go no higher regardless of pressure. You can research this on the web. The other point is that salt raises this boiling point (much like antifreeze raises the boiling point of water in a car radiator) along with any other mineral that was present. So if would be safe to add 10 - 30% higher boiling point when figuring this up. I did not figure up the math for this here because I think people should see this for themselves.
Side notes: Black smokers shoot water out at over 700 degrees F. This is due to the black smoker being deep in the water where great pressure exists (several atmospheres). And it has been known that some upper mantle minerals have held water at temps around 1000 degree C. This is due to extreme pressures, and the mineral's capability to increase the boiling point.
What does this prove?
That the water receding after the flood can go into the upper mantle without boiling off. And it is not being able to come back up without broiling the earth fulfills a promise God made. He told Noah that he would never flood the whole earth again. So the water being locked in that mineral proves God's promise.
If you would like to go deeper into the math of the flood:
| The Radius of the Earth = 3963 miles|
The Radius of the earth with 5 miles of water = 3968 Miles.
The volume of the earth = 260711882973.3396 cubic miles
The volume of the earth with water = 261699925947.5533 cubic miles.
261699925947.5533 - 260711882973.3396 = 988042974.2136999965
So the volume of the flood water = 988,042,974.2136999965 cubic miles. But lets round it to 988,042,974 Cubic Miles.
If this water was put into a sphere, it would have a radius of 618 Miles.
From the site above you can see the site owner make a lame attempt to debunk the flood by using only one source for water.
3) What made the canopy fall, that lowered the barometric pressure which started the process of flooding the earth?
a) There is evidence that huge meteors have hit the earth in the past. If one hit the canopy, as big as they say it was, it would collaspe.
b) They say that the poles flipped. Since the canopy was polarized. Flipping of the pole would have tore it apart.
So either event could have done it.
Problem: What broke up the fountains of the deep as the bible says?
Solution: While the canopy was intact, and the barometric pressure of the earth higher. The boiling point of water all over the world was higher as well. The sudden drop in barometric pressure created steam pockets which created very high pressure underground. This pressure broke up the fountains of the deep and they flowed with tremendous force to the surface of the earth.
4) What about the Pangaea?
The earth's crust has actually expanded twice.
In Genesis 1. the whole earth was covered with water. Then it had to recede into one place so that the land could appear. This means that the water went underground. And to go underground, the earth's crust had to expand. This made the Pangaea where all the continents were together.
When the barometric pressure fell, and the atmosphere released the moisture that it held. It released the 30 oceans worth of water. When the flood water ran off the surface of the earth and into the upper mantle. The earth's crust had to expand again in order to receive it. This caused the continents to break apart and still look like they were together at one time.
The video in which I will leave a link to, shows how the earth would look if there was no water under the crust. This will shock you because it answers questions that even science has no answer for. Then it re-expands the earth to show how it looks today. the person who did this animation is not a creationist. And his views do not support it. But as he challenges his own peers, he actually proves the point of the bible with his animation.
The promise of God. After the earth had been flooded, and Noah was off the Ark. God made a promise:
|I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.|
|And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:|
|And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.|
|And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.|
|And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.|
This promise is reconfirmed by this finding: Deep waters. This water cannot be brought up because to do so would broil the earth. I believe this was done so that when we found this water, it would be a testament to God's promise to never flood the earth again. Also, science can't explain how it got there so deep and in so hot of a mineral. Here's my comment on how this happened. When water is put under pressure, it's boiling point rises. In other words, it would take more heat to achieve the water to boil. The higher the pressure, the more heat it takes. So when the earth was flooded to 5.5 miles, there was extreme pressure at the bottom. But, that's not the end of it. Some of our deepest oceans are 6.6 miles down. Ocean trenches are the deepest part of an ocean. The deepest one, the Marianas Trench in the South Pacific Ocean (6.6 mile down). That would be 12.1 miles down to the deepest part of the ocean during the flood. We'll round it off to 12 miles to make the math easier.
According to scuba diving books, every 33 feet you descend in water, doubles the atmospheric pressure. There are 5,280 feet in a mile. So 5,280 times 12 = 63360 feet, which equals 1920 atmospheres (63360 divided by 33). 1920 atmospheres equals 28,216.2066837 psi. Now the average boiling point of water at 30.00inHg is 212.15 F. So if you times 30.00inHg times 1920 atmospheres equals 57600.00inHg. The boiling point of water at this atmospheric pressure is 106820.27 F. And also keep in mind that salt in the water will raise this even higher. But we will keep this simple. Wadsleyite, the mineral that holds the water that receded from the flood, stays around 1832 F or more. So 106820.27 F is well within range for the water from the flood to go into this mineral without boiling away.